@seilamgoh - 

Alan, speaking of movement, I gotta applaud AFC for the Jubilization movement. I think you guys have shown churches what is a high-quality, God-centered, discipling worship experience. I hope through Jubilization Christians will put more effort into making their worship services more substantial and meaningful. Keep up the good work!

@ESWH - 

Edmund, yeah I agree with you that PCOs do best in creating trans-denominational movements. I think rather than seeing PCOs as “helping the church to do what they are supposed to do but are not doing”, a better role for PCOs is to act as a vehicle showing churches a larger picture of the kingdom of God in which local congregations cannot see by themselves. By that, I don’t mean organizing mega-size events that try to fit 10,000 people in a stadium, but more of offering a global identity or view-point for Christians to see the world and share each other’s concerns. I think Bono and the ONE campaign is doing exactly something as such. The Anglican Communion of 77 million members worldwide also offers something of this global identity, connecting Christians across continents and allowing them to see how God is working throughout different regions on earth. When we say: “Think globally, act locally”, non-denominational and congregational churches often only possess the latter part. I think PCOs can fit here very well by offering the former as a movement.

@pakkwok - 

Patrick, I’m glad to have known you in Regent, as I see God continually shaping you and preparing you for a very special vocation. I can see us as good partners in the future, I hope you won’t “lift my elbow” when I invite you to talk, will you? =) Anyways, let’s find some time to have coffee with Alan during reading week. It’ll be a wonderful opportunity to pick each other’s brains for more thoughtful reflections.

P.S. When you guys post a comment on xanga, if you click on the reply link, it will create some code in the beginning of your post, such that an email will be sent to the other commenter notifying there’s more conversation going on. It is xanga’s poor man’s track-back functionality.

I think this conversation has inspired me to write something about what pastoral staff should or should not be doing. Keep an eye on my next post…

Patrick and Anson, we should have coffee together…

As you and Alan have said, I see PCOs walking along side with local churches. Maybe a few steps ahead. But I also think that there is no reason why any local congregation should be running behind. I don’t see why the church can not get involved in social justice issue and other target/age-group based ministries. It is a sad reality, something that needs to be resolved. But still PCO is a fix, not a remedy.

I also don’t see the PCOs as “the bridge between church and world”. Christians are to imitate Christ to live among others in this world. We are not bringing them “to church”. The world is already living with a new reality/possibility that is church! We need to train more Christians to live in a missional way. Not to sit in the pews and wait for outsides to join in…

And in order to train more missional Christians/Jesus’ disciples, maybe we do need some PCOs to start a trans-denominational movement! =) I think this is what they do best — connecting b/s from different churches. But please, start a movement, don’t just run events.

thank you for your post!

i wish i came to regent before I actually started to work for a para-church organization. back then, there was not much personal reflection, esp. not on this level. i agree with everything you’ve said regarding the PCOs, they are indeed valid criticism that every PCO should fully embrace, it would be great if some of them (or perhaps me) would have the opportunity to work along side with church leaders like yourself.

I remember i went to breakthrough with overwhelming passion but little preparation. Therefore, I admire people who know exactly what they want to do and thus get equipped before they go into the field. i wish i can be more sure about what i want to do next and then get equipped accordingly.

in my experience, the Holy Spirit did work through a very bitter, lonely, worldly ambitious, but spiritual sloth person. However, God is sovereign!! I am still learning through my experiences through different dialogues and reflections, and most importantly i am still learning to live my life in the Holy Spirit. cos’ i know that i won’t be called to do a position for life, but rather to do whatever in the Holy Spirit. (ie. a pastor or an advertiser)

i am open for a coffee as well. praise the Lord!

I’ve written a post in my blog regarding this, and will post it tomorrow. Basically what I think is that the working condition of most pastors these days are way too undesirable. Seeing the pastors suffer, people will not want to go into pastoral ministry. (People just don’t know you suffer in PCOs too…)

The whole ecosystem is so ruined. Mercy on us.

PS> re: “One More Thing” – that’s why AFC’s ministry is not event-based… we’re not the competitor of local churches, but partner! MInistry should not be event-based.

One more thing:

Think about it. There are only 52 weeks in a year. That means only 52 Fridays and 52 Saturdays, minus all the special holidays and long weekends. If both church and para-church activities are heavily event-based (e.g. camps, retreats, talks, worship nights, gatherings, dinners), it is inevitable that we will run into frequent time conflicts. I’m sure this is not unknown to many of us.

Man power and other resources may be unlimited, but time is not. So how can PCOs effectively partner and compliment the church without competing for those fixed number of Fridays and Saturdays remains a challenge we need to face.

Thanks for your comment, Alan.

First of all, I guess I should make a disclaimer that those of my friends, esp. those in PCOs, need not to read this personally. Most of my PCO friends are doing a faithful job. What I’m trying to say here is a general picture of the PCO scene, whether it is in HK or North America. There are just way too many PCOs in the market. And I hate seeing my mailbox stuffed with countless pledge letters asking for more money. It is as if every quarter is in deficit and never balanced. I wonder what is wrong with the financial planning of many PCOs? Where’s the financial accountability?

Perhaps this problem has to do with church polity too. In my church tradition, the episcopal model has no need for PCOs, because the diocesan office functions as one big PCO, doing all the large-scale work each individual congregation cannot do on its own, e.g. social justice, outreach, corporate training, ecumenical dialogue… etc. Ideally in a diocesan framework, the church is a fully functioning body, doing all it is supposed to do, and there is no need for PCOs to do or supplement what it can’t do. Well, of course in congregational churches such thing does not exist, and it is no wonder why so many PCOs exist in the first place.

On the other hand, I really appreciate your conviction that parachurches are to walk alongside and assist the church. That’s a very good way to look at it. And the family doctor/specialist model also make a lot of sense, but I think only if it is provided there are sufficient family doctors. It’s just like our local B.C. problem. We have a shortage of family doctors. Think about having 9 specialists and 1 family doctor. What will happen to the health of the society then?

The reason I say this is that, I have been to a revival meeting a couple years ago. There were more than a dozen young people like me who raised their hands and answered the altar call to serve Christ full time. I was filled with joy seeing so many people willing to do God’s work. However, later on following up what that call meant for them, perhaps only 1 out of a dozen is willing to go for pastoral ministry. All others find the idea of becoming a pastor totally abhorrent, and many prefer doing other ministries (just as long as it is not pastoral), i.e. those that are more fun, more creative, and less painful, like music, drama, youth, and sports ministries… etc. Ask anyone around you, I’m sure 9 out of 10 will find being a pastor unthinkable. Now I wonder why is there such a distaste for working in a church setting and an aversion to an honorable role of the pastorate? Perhaps we have a very twisted image of what a pastor is or does.

Of course I am not suggesting that everyone should become a pastor. I just hope that those who are not clear what’s ahead of them don’t rule out such an option so easily without even considering it. That’s because such an attitude is like telling God: “You can tell me to do anything, except A, B, and C. Sorry, even before you ask, I have already banned those options already.” Now who’s the sovereign Lord here?

Sorry for my rant. I guess I’m just disappointed in seeing the flock of Christ starving to death due to the lack of shepherds, and those who can potentially become shepherds are turning away for the wrong reasons, and end up serving in PCOs that suck the life out of the church rather than empowering it.

Sure we can have a chat. I have a reading week coming up in 2 weeks. I can give you a shout =)

let’s not forget the role of the parachurch, that is to “para” the “church”, to walk alongside, or to help the church. I always use this analogy: if the local churches are family doctors, the PCO’s are specialists. We work together for the health of the body of Christ. i think the body of Christ needs both the local churches and the PCO’s. but i too have the question: do we need that many PCO’s?

i agree so much that some PCO’s are competing with the local churches for resources just to sustain themselves. but i don’t think they should be eliminated, they should repent.

the local churches and the PCOs should not be competing, they should be partnering.

and they don’t need to compete for resources either. our resources are unlimited. our father is resourceful. if we’re following true vision, he will provide.

have time for coffee? =->